The series lands on the deepest layer. Jonathan Doyle on Oyserman’s identity-based motivation research — “people act not because of incentives, but because acting is identity-congruent; we do what people like us do” — and why the most driven people aren’t chasing goals, they’re protecting an identity. Including reference groups (why you must choose who gets your time), the answer he gave a struggling sales executive about the snooze button, and the series’ full arc closed: biology loads the gun, but meaning pulls the trigger.
“You don’t climb Everest today. But you start today.”
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Transcript
Well, hello there, my friend.
Speaker:It's Jonathan Doyle.
Speaker:Welcome to The Daily Podcast.
Speaker:This is day five of our five-day series.
Speaker:If you're just joining us on day five, you may wanna jump
Speaker:back to the previous episodes.
Speaker:They're all short, but we are answering together the great question of what
Speaker:is it that explains why some of us are driven, motivated, passionate,
Speaker:inspired, chasing after things, giving our full attention and energy to what is
Speaker:significant for us, yet we observe that the vast majority of people don't do that.
Speaker:It's not a condemnation.
Speaker:It is not judgment.
Speaker:It is not arrogance.
Speaker:It is an observation.
Speaker:It is not saying anybody is better than anybody else.
Speaker:But you are given this one precious life, and you are given the freedom,
Speaker:the capacity, the ability to choose what your experience will be like.
Speaker:Yes, there are external forces.
Speaker:Yes, there are things that happen to us.
Speaker:I got a comment on YouTube the other day because I did an episode a couple
Speaker:of weeks ago, and it was about, uh, if you're not achieving what you
Speaker:want, it's because you're simply-- you don't care enough about it.
Speaker:A little blunt, but it came from a discussion I had with somebody in
Speaker:a high-level sales position who was telling me that they just keep hitting
Speaker:the snooze button all the time.
Speaker:They wanna get up.
Speaker:They have these things they, they know that they wanna do.
Speaker:And they asked me, like, you know, "Why don't I do it?" And I said, "Well,
Speaker:'cause you don't care." And they're like a bit shocked, and they go, "No, I do.
Speaker:I do.
Speaker:I do." I said, "No, you don't." Because let's say, for example, that somebody said
Speaker:to you, "Hey, um, if you get up tomorrow at three AM and come into town, I'm
Speaker:gonna give you a million dollars," you're not snoozing through the alarm, right?
Speaker:You're just not.
Speaker:You're just-- You're gonna go and… The night before, you're
Speaker:gonna go and buy 10 alarms, or you're not even gonna go to sleep.
Speaker:You're gonna have somebody run in there with a trumpet
Speaker:and, like, at two thirty AM.
Speaker:So the fact that we snooze through an alarm isn't because
Speaker:we have some genetic disorder.
Speaker:It's because whatever we say we're getting up for doesn't mean enough to us.
Speaker:It's that simple.
Speaker:So this person was kinda saying, you know, "What about people who suffer, and they've
Speaker:had this problem? They have mental illness and this and that and that." And I, I
Speaker:immediately understood from the comment that this person was obviously, you
Speaker:know, has been through a difficult time.
Speaker:And I didn't actually reply this way.
Speaker:I simply thanked them for the comment 'cause I don't like to just
Speaker:end up spending hours of my life arguing with people online ever.
Speaker:But my sense was, yes, y-you're correct.
Speaker:There are lots of people that have debilitating mental illness and, um,
Speaker:neurological problems and, uh, injuries and life setbacks and bankruptcies.
Speaker:But what I will say is that the path of history is strewn with people
Speaker:who have had obstacles like that and worse and still made something
Speaker:extraordinary of themselves.
Speaker:There's a guy on Instagram, I c- I have to… I'm trying to remember who's, who
Speaker:he is, but he's in a wheelchair, uh, obviously has some very, very significant,
Speaker:uh, disability Looks like he's been in the wheelchair his entire life and carries
Speaker:this profound disability, but just every day is producing content about faith and
Speaker:motivation, and it's quite extraordinary.
Speaker:And I just look at that and I think if somebody like that, or Nick Vujicic is
Speaker:another good example if you know his work.
Speaker:Like, all of us go through difficulties.
Speaker:Some people go through horrendous difficulties.
Speaker:But the idea that that is a guaranteed free pass from ever having to
Speaker:make something remarkable of your life, I just don't agree with.
Speaker:I think no matter what has happened to you, you can still
Speaker:find a way to contribute and grow.
Speaker:That's my firm belief.
Speaker:So thank you for listening to that little rant.
Speaker:So today we're gonna wrap up just tailing off from something yesterday.
Speaker:I talked a little bit about identity and how identity tends to drive so
Speaker:much of what characterizes people who are passionate and chasing
Speaker:goals and trying to really grow.
Speaker:So today we're looking at identity-based motivation.
Speaker:This is the research of Oyserman, and there's a quote here, and Oyserman says
Speaker:that people act not because of incentives.
Speaker:Remember we touched on that yesterday.
Speaker:That's sort of interesting.
Speaker:Does that sound a bit counterintuitive to you?
Speaker:You're like, "Oh, Jonathan, that's ridiculous."
Speaker:Like, if somebody offers you $1,000 to do something, within
Speaker:reason, you're gonna do it.
Speaker:Yeah, sure, but I'm talking about a lifestyle.
Speaker:I'm talking about just a general interfacing with reality itself.
Speaker:Incentives are gonna get you to do some things short term, but they're unlikely to
Speaker:carry you across an entire life project.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:So, uh, let's give you the rest of this quote.
Speaker:He says, "People act not because of incentives, but because
Speaker:acting is," and this is good.
Speaker:You ready?
Speaker:"Because acting is identity congruent. We do what people like us do." I have talked
Speaker:for years about, uh, reference groups.
Speaker:I'm really working hard on this with my kids at the moment.
Speaker:Reference groups is simply that who we spend our most of our time with,
Speaker:because the research is clear that the people we spend most of our time
Speaker:with have a huge impact upon us.
Speaker:So you have to be super selective about who you are giving your time to.
Speaker:I don't mean that's arrogance.
Speaker:I don't mean you don't…
Speaker:Y- I mean, you still are, are kind and decent to everybody, but you
Speaker:do get a vote about who you wanna spend most of your time with because
Speaker:the people that you're around will have a profound influence on you.
Speaker:And in Oyserman's research here, he says, "People don't act because
Speaker:of incentives. They act because they wanna be identity congruent."
Speaker:And I said to my kids, like, "Have you noticed that, you know, that when you're
Speaker:in high school, that all the people smoking pot tend to hang out with all the
Speaker:other kids smoking pot, and all the kids who are trying to become Dux or magna
Speaker:cum laude or whatever, or get the highest results, tend to spend time around the
Speaker:kids who are doing all the after-school study, and the kids in the chess club
Speaker:tend to hang with the kids in the chess club, and, you know, the, the, the
Speaker:athletes tend to hang with the athletes?"
Speaker:'Cause we're a social species, and we tend to act in congruent ways
Speaker:to the people that are around us.
Speaker:So if you spend your time with really motivated, passionate, you know,
Speaker:encouraging, generous, kind, alive, healthy people, you're probably gonna
Speaker:pick up some of their behaviors.
Speaker:So this question here, and we wanna pair it with a quote from William James, who is
Speaker:seen as the father of modern psychology.
Speaker:This is back from:Speaker:He says, "Compared with what we ought to be…" Just listen to that language.
Speaker:Compared to what we sh- ought to be, should be, could be.
Speaker:Based on what?
Speaker:Based on the incredible potential that you have.
Speaker:He says, "Compared with what we ought to be, we are only half awake.
Speaker:We are making use of only a small part of our possible
Speaker:mental and physical resources.
Speaker:We are making use of a small part of our mental and physical
Speaker:resources." I love this quote.
Speaker:William James, way back at the dawn of modern psychology, saying, I
Speaker:love that line, "Compared to what we are, what we ought to be, we're only
Speaker:half awake." We're only using twenty percent, he says, of our capacities.
Speaker:Uh, can I share something with you today?
Speaker:My, uh, biometric data from my training said to me that my average resting heart
Speaker:rate is now fifty-five beats per minute.
Speaker:Friends, do you have any idea what that means?
Speaker:Like, the, the normal range for somebody my age is high sixties to seventies.
Speaker:My resting average heart rate is fifty-five.
Speaker:And I come from a background of, my grandfather died at
Speaker:forty-four of a heart attack.
Speaker:My father had his first heart bypass in his very early fifties.
Speaker:I'm fifty-two years of age.
Speaker:I have a resting heart rate of fifty-five.
Speaker:I walked to the studio today carrying a thirty-kilo backpack
Speaker:of s- with steel plates in it.
Speaker:I'm not saying any of that to impress you at all, and I, I hope you can sense that.
Speaker:What I'm saying to you is that my sense of identity and purpose has led me to
Speaker:train and live in a very particular way because, like William James says, I have
Speaker:no intention of living at twenty percent.
Speaker:No intention.
Speaker:Absolutely none.
Speaker:And I wanna encourage you, passionately encourage you, that what if this is true?
Speaker:What if you're living at twenty percent?
Speaker:That compared to who you could be, according to William James,
Speaker:what if you're half awake?
Speaker:So all of this is gonna, I guess, come down to this question for me of identity.
Speaker:Here we are at the end of this five-day questioning process.
Speaker:What's our question?
Speaker:What explains why some people are driven, passionate, committed,
Speaker:goal-chasing, and so many people settle and just settle for average?
Speaker:What explains it?
Speaker:Remember day one, we said, well, there's a genetic component, but you remember that
Speaker:word, your baseline is not your ceiling.
Speaker:Your baseline is not your ceiling.
Speaker:And how do we do it?
Speaker:We train ourselves, and we do it by getting small incremental wins.
Speaker:So you literally have to become an architect.
Speaker:You have to become an architect of your own life.
Speaker:So if you are not where you wanna be, if there's a grand remarkable
Speaker:future that you do want, but you are not there, what do you do?
Speaker:You start architecting a small set of wins.
Speaker:So I was able to, to do a 10K ruck pa- pack with 30 kilos of metal
Speaker:plates because, you know, at some point I, I, I went for a 5K run,
Speaker:and I built on that, and I built on that, and that builds identity.
Speaker:If you can match a core identity to a core purpose, you are gonna be a
Speaker:very long way to where you need to be.
Speaker:A core identity to a core purpose, you are going to be a very long
Speaker:way to where you need to be.
Speaker:So ultimately, I think the transformation comes through this,
Speaker:through identity and purpose.
Speaker:What explains why some of us are getting after it?
Speaker:In my-- if-- all I can do really is offer you what I know about
Speaker:myself, because that's the only real data that I've got to work with.
Speaker:I know why I'm here.
Speaker:I know why I'm here in this studio right now, because I genuinely hope
Speaker:that some of what I'm saying is going to encourage you, bless you, inspire
Speaker:you, help you to believe that there's something more that you could do,
Speaker:be, have, or achieve in your life.
Speaker:And then there's a deep sense that this is my identity.
Speaker:And you know the great thing about identity?
Speaker:The stronger it gets, the less you care about what anyone else thinks.
Speaker:You're just like, "This is who I've been created to be. This is my mission.
Speaker:I just wanna do this and help people, and that's what's gonna happen."
Speaker:So I want this for you.
Speaker:So as we finish The answer to the question of whether you need more drive
Speaker:or whether you feel you've got almost none is knowing what's important to you and
Speaker:then deciding if you wanna expend enough human effort and energy to pursue it.
Speaker:So you've gotta choose things that, to go after that are really
Speaker:meaningful to you, and then you build a series of small incremental wins.
Speaker:You don't get to the summit of Everest the first day.
Speaker:Maybe you only climb 100 meters.
Speaker:So you could be listening to me right now and your life
Speaker:could be in a terrible state.
Speaker:You could be financially wrecked.
Speaker:Maybe your health is terrible.
Speaker:Maybe your relationships are not where you need them to be.
Speaker:Can I tell you that you can turn this around?
Speaker:All you have to do is take the first incremental step.
Speaker:Optimize your health, get your sleep back, improve your energy and fitness.
Speaker:Stop putting dumb stuff into your body that's wrecking your
Speaker:energy levels and making you miserable and cranky all the time.
Speaker:Stop doing that.
Speaker:Start to get some good supplements, creatine, get your protein up, get
Speaker:your body right, get your sleep right.
Speaker:Choose to be around people that encourage you.
Speaker:Spend less time with anybody that is negative and pulls you down.
Speaker:Then start to do some small things that move you forward.
Speaker:Maybe you just save a little bit of money.
Speaker:Maybe you start training.
Speaker:Maybe you just join the gym, make the phone call, send the email, get started.
Speaker:That's all you have to do.
Speaker:You don't climb Everest today, but you start today.
Speaker:And friends, I just wanna tell you as I finish, it's a great
Speaker:place, this life that I have.
Speaker:It's got its many challenges, but I, I-- when I get to the end of it, I can
Speaker:promise you I will not look back with regrets, and I don't want that for you.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:If you like what you're hearing, please subscribe to the podcast.
Speaker:Uh, give me a subscribe.
Speaker:You can find me on Instagram, jdoylespeaks.
Speaker:You can find me on YouTube, Jonathan Doyle Speaks, and everything else is
Speaker:on the website, jonathandoyle.co, .co.
Speaker:Uh, if you wanna book me for, for speaking work, uh, I do, uh, high-level
Speaker:coaching usually with executives so you can find coaching options and, uh, just
Speaker:hit subscribe because I love doing this.
Speaker:I'm gonna got, uh, we do this every day.
Speaker:Every single day there'll be something for you.
Speaker:So, um, I hope to join you again very soon.
Speaker:God bless you, my friend.
Speaker:This has been the Daily Podcast.
Speaker:My name's Jonathan Doyle, and you and I are gonna talk again tomorrow